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Topic Summary

Posted by: devnullius
« on: 30. November 2014., 22:54:35 »

FROM: https://bitcointalk.org/index.php?topic=150803.12380

Quote from: PuertoLibre on 30. November 2014., 21:19:21
[Posted for the sake of Clarification and Discussion purposes. Credits go to https://forums.butterflylabs.com/forum.php for making this post possible. Protected under the FAIR USE Act.]







Just to give you an inkling in the life of just 1 BFL customer waiting in line to get their refund.



If you patiently read through the above, you now know why TekHed is defending BFL. Once he probably gets his ass out of the fire, all else is shit to him. So if deception and [apparently] "false" support somehow [he perhaps perceives?] keeps this boat afloat with his invested assets...that is what he may have to resort to.

Quote from: PuertoLibre on 28. November 2014., 19:41:49
Quote from: Gleb Gamow on 28. November 2014., 19:34:19
Quote from: PuertoLibre on 28. November 2014., 19:15:16
I have news to report, Slok has finally stopped deleting customers posts!

https://forums.butterflylabs.com/the-monarch-discussion/8893-ftc-v-bfl-take-2-a-6.html#post86844

I also believe (and have believed for a while) that TekHead is someones sock at BFL. I call him a PR Sock Puppet.

Joined: 12-05-2013
Barely has any posts, and a good portion of them are recent.
His status has also interestingly become "Experienced Miner". Uh shouldn't he be a "Junior Member" with those few posts?

Quote from: TekHed
The fact of the matter is that BFL has been 100% truthful with how they have operated, they stated that the product was a PRE-ORDER ITEM on the Monarch sales page and that the date of delivery WAS AN ESTIMATE and anyone who waited the 6th month period attached to the pre-order timeline before asking for a refund was being granted it [after a 45day wait period].

In light of recent revelations, I demand that this thread now be locked because it will no longer serve any further purpose.

One final #ASKFTC, with apologies to Grimm and his family of slut-puppies.
I fixed that quote with some extra details TekHead forgot to mention?

Lets see 182.5 days...add the 45 days....227.5 days just to get a refund!? Holy shit.

227.5 days
32.5 Weeks
8.125 Months

Or about...1/50th or 1/100th of your life. Give or take a leap year day. Oh and the lag time for customer service to get back to you.

#ASKFTC
Posted by: devnullius
« on: 04. November 2014., 22:56:54 »

FROM: http://www.coindesk.com/ftc-granted-approval-sell-butterfly-labs-bitcoin/?__scoop_post=72c0b4a0-645f-11e4-d85d-90b11c3d2b20&__scoop_topic=3184068#__scoop_post=72c0b4a0-645f-11e4-d85d-90b11c3d2b20&__scoop_topic=3184068

Take this BFL! Next step: PRISON for the lot of ya'

FTC Granted Approval to Sell Off Butterfly Labs’ Bitcoins

Pete Rizzo (@pete_rizzo_) | Published on November 4, 2014 at 17:06 GMT

The Federal Trade Commission (FTC) has secured the authority to begin converting Butterfly Labs’ bitcoin holdings into cash reserves.

The motion was granted by the US District Court for the Western District of Missouri on 29th October and marks the latest update in the case that began when the FTC filed a lawsuit against the company for fraud and misrepresentation this September.

At the time, Butterfly Labs was closed pending trial, although it has resumed limited business operations under court receivership. The designation means that a court-appointed receiver has been in control of the business, and that this individual will now be able to “manage and administer” the company’s finances.

The latest filing suggests that the receiver will seek to cover potential refund liabilities the company may incur by liquidating the company's bitcoin assets.

The full court filing reads:

“The stipulated interim order requires all parties to cooperate in transferring receivership defendant’s bitcoins to a court-controlled bitcoin wallet, under the direction and supervision of temporary receiver.”

The FTC receiver may now hire independent professionals or contractors to ensure the safe transfer of the company’s bitcoins to the court-controlled wallet.

The agency responded to requests for comment, but declined to elaborate further on its latest proceedings in the case.

Managing bitcoin assets

Although a largely procedural update in the ongoing case, the motion may be notable due to the fact that Butterfly Labs is likely to have carried out substantial portions of its business operations in bitcoin.

Butterfly Labs is alleged to have generated bitcoins by conducted extending testing of the bitcoin mining machines it manufactured before delivering the units to consumers, while former employees have been accused of profiting by using products returned by customers for personal use.

An early market leader, Butterfly Labs supported the bitcoin ecosystem through partnerships, and accepted bitcoin as payment for its bitcoin miners – even selecting emerging bitcoin startup BitPay as its exclusive online payment processor for sales of its then-new ASIC miners in 2012.

Butterfly Labs selected BitPay over online payment services provided by Dwolla and PayPal, which lead to record processing figures for the startup.

Court case ahead

Pursuant to the case’s original filing, Butterfly Labs will now move toward an eventual court case.

In the original filing, the FTC sought to secure relief on behalf of the consumers, seeking the authority to refund consumers and sell off any illegally obtained.

Butterfly Labs continues to be preserved as a legal entity and could eventually resume operations, depending on the outcome of its court case. Company executives have previously spoken out about the actions taken by the FTC, asserting that the agency overreached when closing its operations and that the firm will be vindicated in court.

The US District Court for the Western District of Missouri told CoinDesk that the case is still in its earliest stages and that no upcoming court dates have been set.
Posted by: devnullius
« on: 24. September 2014., 02:23:09 »

#ButterflyLabs is the target of a Federal Trade Commission civil lawsuit!!


FROM: http://newsbtc.com/2014/09/23/butterfly-labs-issues-statement-regarding-ftc-complaint/

Earlier today, it was reported that Butterfly Labs was the target of a Federal Trade Commission civil lawsuit, which alleged the company has conducted fraudulent and deceptive business with customers — many of whom are in the United States.

The Federal Trade Commission effectively has put a halt on the Kansas-based company’s operations — freezing assets and forcing an injunction that has brought the assembly line to a grinding halt.

And Butterfly Labs isn’t taking kindly to the actions.

In a lengthy statement issued by the company’s spokesperson, Butterfly Labs suggests the Federal Trade Commission is “going to war with bitcoin” and they’re starting by taking out Butterfly Labs. It’s an interesting perspective, but one many would disagree with.

Here’s the full, unabridged statement issued Tuesday evening:

Butterfly Labs is disappointed in the heavy-handed actions of the Federal Trade Commission. In a rush to judgment, the FTC has acted as judge, jury and executioner, contrary to our intended system of governmental checks and balances. The FTC’s current actions are negatively impacting our thousands of customers and our dozens of employees. Their current media campaign should only further alarm a knowing citizenry and raise questions as to why the FTC wouldn’t simply let this case play out through the judicial system. That is what Butterfly Labs intends to do.

It appears the FTC has decided to go to war on bitcoin overall, and is starting with Butterfly Labs. Butterfly Labs is being portrayed by the FTC as a bogus and fake company. To the contrary, Butterfly Labs is very real. As pointed out in court filings Butterfly Labs made last night, Butterfly Labs has shipped more than $33 million in products to customers and voluntarily granted refunds approximating $17 million to customers for cancelled orders. Butterfly Labs was literally is in the midst of shipping out completed products to fulfill the remaining millions of dollars of orders on our books and issuing requested refunds, when the FTC effectively closed the doors of Butterfly Labs without any chance to be heard in court.

At this time, Butterfly Labs is cooperating fully with the Temporary Receiver appointed by the Court. A hearing is set for September 29 and Butterfly Labs has asked the Court to allow it to present testimony from key witnesses for the company. Butterfly Labs intends to defend our business and our nascent and promising industry. The government wants to shut Butterfly Labs down, and we are not going away without a fight to vindicate bitcoin, our company, and our employees. Our continued focus is our customers and finding a way to continue to deliver products and processing refunds for those who have requested them.

Many in the community have felt that Butterfly Labs has continuously failed to meet expectations, though the company has been working to repair their tarnished image.

Its future, however, is uncertain.

As noted in the statement, the company will be taking advantage of a hearing later this month to clear their name. More developments on this front as they become available.


(end of article)

The nerve of those people... I hope they lose EVERYTHING and will go to JAIL for at least a decade. ALL of them! I can't stand the face of that c4nt Judy no more...!

BURN!

Devvie

PS: anyone knows if non-USA members stand a chance? ;p
Posted by: devnullius
« on: 18. August 2014., 00:05:43 »

US CFPB Now Accepting Complaints Against Bitcoin Businesses

Keep up to date here: https://twitter.com/butterflyripoff

LOVE them XD

What's the real financial picture  http://www.butterflylabscomplaints.com/blog-post/2014/8/17/whats-the-real-financial-picture …  http://www.butterflylabscomplaints.com/blog-post/2014/8/17/whats-the-real-financial-picture …

The balls on @ButterflyLabs @butterfto ask for 80k to upgrade an order they have not shipped. How do they put pants on with balls that size!

its time 4 @ButterflyLabs @BFL_josh To PAY! US CFPB Now Accepting Complaints Against Bitcoin Businesses http://coinde.sk/1mD6T2Y  via @coindesk

#Bitcoin #News: Butterfly Labs anonymously buy http://Buttcoin.org  to remove “scam article” http://bit.ly/W52IXt "
We won't do that!!

@Vocativ has a profile on Butterfly Labs, getting sued by customers for shopping Bitcoin mining rigs late.  http://buff.ly/1nIRwHE

Bitcoin: Bitcoins Most Controversial Startup--An Inside Look at Butterfly Labs - http://cryptogeeks.com/bitcoin-bitcoins-most-controversial-startup-inside-look-butterfly-labs …

Bitcoin startup Butterfly Labs faces hundreds of complaints over long delays. https://www.inside.com/bitcoin/u3mbq/bitcoin-startup-butterfly-labs-faces-hundreds-of?utm_source=twitter.com&utm_medium=twitterhandle&utm_campaign=@InsideBitcoins1 … #bitcoin

I went Kansas to write about @ButterflyLabs, a Bitcoin mining startup that's facing down a series of lawsuits. http://www.vocativ.com/tech/bitcoin/butterfly-labs-bitcoins-innovative-controversial-startup/ …


STILL... WAR!

Devvie
Posted by: devnullius
« on: 08. May 2014., 21:51:15 »

Quote from: devnullius on 11. April 2014., 09:36:36
Documents and Resources:  Class Action Complaint Against BF Labs, Inc.

http://www.woodlaw.com/sites/default/files/casedocs/2014-04-04%20Complaint.pdf

Private MIRROR: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzlT4wpwijZqbDQwd1hHS1dEMTg/edit?usp=sharing

UPDATE

Thank you for contacting our firm. If you have provided your documentation, thank you! If not, your documents and correspondence could be very helpful for the case. I am putting together the information regarding the specifics of everyone's orders and the related documents. If you would like to submit your information (emails to/from Butterfly Labs, screen shots of Butterfly Labs' website and your dashboard or any other information you believe might be helpful), you can do email it to me, fax to (816) 337-4243 or send by snail mail to:

Wood Law Firm, LLC
1100 Main Street, Suite 1800
Kansas City, MO 64105

Right now the lawsuit is in its early stages and has not yet been certified as a class action. After the class is certified as a class action, everybody who fits the class definition will automatically be a participant in the lawsuit. Until it is certified as a class action, we are trying to gather as much information as we can from everyone who did business with ButterflyLabs.

We will attempt to update our case/investigation page (at http://www.woodlaw.com/cases/butterfly-labs-and-bf-labs-inc-bitcoin-miners ) with any developments as soon as they happen, but feel free to e-mail me anytime with any questions.

Thanks!
Posted by: Samker
« on: 13. April 2014., 08:21:01 »

Quote from: devnullius on 11. April 2014., 09:32:49
...

PS: do notice the BFL owners bought themselves private homes and cars from MY money :( While mining BTC with MY equipment!




Soon... ;)
Posted by: devnullius
« on: 11. April 2014., 09:36:36 »

Documents and Resources:  Class Action Complaint Against BF Labs, Inc.

http://www.woodlaw.com/sites/default/files/casedocs/2014-04-04%20Complaint.pdf

Private MIRROR: https://drive.google.com/file/d/0BzlT4wpwijZqbDQwd1hHS1dEMTg/edit?usp=sharing
Posted by: devnullius
« on: 11. April 2014., 09:32:49 »

FROM: http://www.woodlaw.com/blog/customers-unite-bring-class-action-against-butterfly-labs

Customers Unite to Bring Class Action Against Butterfly Labs

Consumer Fraud

Posted on April 7, 2014 by Noah Wood

The Wood Law Firm LLC announced today that customers from across the country have joined together and filed a class-action lawsuit challenging the sales and advertising practices of Butterfly Labs. The lawsuit against BF Labs, Inc., which does business as Butterfly Labs seeks compensation for customers who pre-paid Butterfly Labs for Bitcoin mining equipment and who did not receive the equipment they paid for, or received the equipment far after Butterfly Labs represented the equipment would ship.

Bitcoin is a peer-to-peer payment system and digital currency. Bitcoins are created by "mining", a process where miners receive transaction fees and newly minted bitcoins in return for verifying and recording payments into a public ledger. By design, mining is a computationally intensive process which today requires purpose-built computer chips to be cost effective.

The complaint, filed in the United State District Court for the District of Kansas located in Kansas City, seeks to recover the pre-payments made to Butterfly Labs and the losses customers sustained due to Butterfly Labs' conduct. The lawsuit alleges Butterfly Labs required customers to pre-pay for orders of ASIC based Bitcoin mining hardware, and used portions of customer pre-payments to make loans to shareholders and purchase a house and automobile for a shareholder. Because the computational difficulty of Bitcoin mining increases over time, by the time some consumers finally received their equipment, the equipment had become worthless because mining with the equipment was no longer cost effective.

"Bitcoin is an exciting and promising new technology. Unfortunately this also makes it an attractive area for people running scams and frauds," stated attorney Noah Wood one of the lawyers for the customers. "Stopping the bad actors and staying vigilant against consumer fraud is absolutely necessary for the successful development of the Bitcoin ecosystem."

According to the complaint, Butterfly Labs may have collected over $25 million in customer pre-payments. The lawsuit also alleges Butterfly Labs, despite telling customers that Butterfly Labs did not mine bitcoins itself, used equipment customers had already paid for to earn mining income for itself under the guise of "testing" such hardware. The complaint states this "testing" served "to enrich Defendant at the detriment of its customers by both denying the customers' use and benefit of the equipment they have already paid for, as well as increasing the overall mining difficulty required to generate future bitcoins."

The case is Alexander et al. v. BF Labs, Inc., Case Number 2:14-CV-02159 (D. Kansas). The customers are represented by Noah Wood and Ari Rodopoulos. A copy of the lawsuit and further information is available from the Wood Law Firm, LLC at www.woodlaw.com/cases/butterfly-labs-and-bf-labs-inc-bitcoin-miners.


---

Thank you and God Speed Mr Woodlaw :)

PS: do notice the BFL owners bought themselves private homes and cars from MY money :( While mining BTC with MY equipment!
Posted by: devnullius
« on: 25. January 2014., 22:29:29 »

In the last 24 hours, my 55GH BFL miner created 0,01493742 BTC.

According to http://www.alloscomp.com/bitcoin/calculator this should be 0,01260792...
http://blockchained.com/profit/index.php agrees with 0.0126 BTC.

Some basic math (0,012 + (x*0,012)/100=0,014.

"x" here is approx. 18.4% more profit then if when I'd be mining alone. This complicates me switching from Bitcoin to Peercoin with, for example, www.multipool.us.

For now - if you came Googling here, feel free to repeat my calculations for your own hardware... And set that to the prices with them fuckheads @ butterfly labs...


Karma :)

devnullius
Posted by: devnullius
« on: 24. January 2014., 17:25:05 »

https://products.butterflylabs.com

65nm Products - In Stock Now
50 GH/S BITCOIN MINER
 $984.00 Order   

230 GH/S RACK MOUNT BITCOIN MINER
 230 GH/s Rack Mount Bitcoin Miner
$4,255.00 Order

So... Assuming you are in a pool and just taking my numbers with 55GH... Let's do the math of what you could expect to make out of this...

--
For 1000$ you get a device that makes about (let's really max out here!) 15$/day.
You need 1000/15 = almost 70 days to break-even (BTC price does not go up and mining difficulty stays as high as it is now and electricity is free).
My advise? Buy BTC for your 1000$ - you are better of.

--
For 4200$ you get 230GH. Let's divide 230/55. Let's round it up to 4.2. So this device is 4.2 times faster, so 4.2 times more profitable then my miner @ 55GH. So that's (really royally calculated) 60$/day. 4200/60 is, again, 70 days for break even point. Very optimistically and non-realistic taking out all factors slowing your profits further down.
Again, my advise: buy BTC for you money.

Or go take a look at alternative crypto currencies to invest. Wait 70 days and chances are... You'll have made a real profit :>

Karma? Neeeh. BURN them assholes!

devnullius
Posted by: devnullius
« on: 24. January 2014., 17:10:15 »

SEE: http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=bfl

Quote
BFL
Verb

1. To have something you ordered - delivered so far behind schedule, that it is no longer useful to you. Especially in cases where delays are 100+ days and the manufacturer or reseller is refusing to offer a refund for the goods.
2. Scammed
3. Completely fucked over

The term originates from the famous case in the Bitcoin community of longer than 1 year backlog of orders at Butterfly Labs, who have refused to refund their customers.
Usage:
Damn, I think we're getting BFL'd

Be careful, you might get BFL'd

See? NO karma!

devnullius
Posted by: devnullius
« on: 24. January 2014., 16:53:06 »

After all this time... I was cleaning up open tabs and thought I'd finally take my fight with Butterfly Labs back on. Images now are working, so you can see who they are.

They won't care though, they have become FILTHY rich :(

This is how Butterfly Labs works... They create a next-gen device. They usually announce early, only to be beaten by later specs from competitors. Competitors that either give you price-guarantee or at least deliver as fast as they can (I hope: ).

When they have created this next gen and many orders are already in, they actually start producing the devices on mass. And start "testing" them. READ: mining like crazy with YOUR hardware, getting as many fucking coins as they possibly can! When customers are really getting angry - especially after the many many many newsletters telling you how GREAT all their devices are - and competitors have handed over batch 1 and 2 at least 2 months before, they will *slowly* start to deliver - avoiding any charges of fraud!

Of course; they already made a huge profit in BTC on the hardware YOU payed for them. THEN you get the left-overs and scramble for a few more bitcoins before the network adjusts completely to the next gen hardware.

My 55GH miner only made a little more than 1 BTC until now - and only because I joined a pool that pays a dividend. When prices go up... You get payed extra.

BTCGuild Stats for today:
24 Hour Earnings = 0.01678912
Account Balance BTC = 1.57502925
Account Balance NMC = 2.49994672 (cryptsy: Net Total (BTC) sell = 0.01500864 BTC)

Making my "earning" 1.59 BTC... With an investment of 2500$ back in April.

Hardware used: https://products.butterflylabs.com/homepage/50-gh-s-bitcoin-miner.html (mine works at 55GH average...)

If I would have bought BTC for my money back in April instead of investing in this miner... I would have had 50 (FIFTY) bitcoins now... FUCK you Butterfly Labs. FUCK YOU!

Remember: I would NOT get that 0.0167 BTC/day if it weren't for the joined pool boost!! This is about 9 euro... Almost break-even point for (Dutch) electricity bill, which is close to 6 euro/day (them taxes!)

So fuck them. Or did I already mention that?

I'll also copy paste some newsletters they keep sending: showing minders so low in capacity that it is criminal to sell them. Only a complete idiot would buy those devices.

NO karma, Butterflylabs Scam!

Do see their Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ButterflyLabs . I'm banned for commenting on their site with many many many accounts, but do me and others a favour: post a link to this scforum-article to warn others. As you can see, once in a while there are many critical comments from all kinds of people on their site. They do not check it very regularly. They will ultimately remove most if not all critical posts, only leaving the happy naive customers... So copy paste a link and keep it nice. Others will follow it and hopefully not go for these US scum bags :( For they still have NOT changed their "ways".

*RAGE*

Devvie Nuis
NL.
Posted by: Samker
« on: 14. December 2013., 09:23:35 »

Quote from: devnullius on 12. December 2013., 21:30:42
...

I received my miner two weeks ago.

...

Somehow I'm glad to hear, that you'll have the opportunity to regain the invested money... Also, I would like to know whether our strategy had influence on that?

Quote from: Pez on 12. December 2013., 22:29:25
Hi ! devnullius I hope to follow your progress with this even if when I have the view that this is a fraud. As I have point out before.

...

I'm interested too... 8)
Posted by: Pez
« on: 12. December 2013., 22:29:25 »

Hi ! devnullius I hope to follow your progress with this even if when I have the view that this is a fraud. As I have point out before.

The delivery time of your miner shows ones again that it is a "pyramid game" because of the main task for it is that their is just the early starters that get the profit for them that start later.

Now what I can see the also will be the power company's.
I hope you can give me a progress for how fast you can get 1 Bitcoin in the progress of time. What I have understand the progress should decrease logarithmic (decrease faster and faster under the time).

I looked at the web site that you referee to and did only find a 50GH/S as the nearest to your miner for a price of about $2500 with would be around €1500 if I'm not wrong. If we hypothetically calculate that you manage to make 10 Bitcoin/year first year and you want a hardware pay off for one year and you power consumption is what you say about €150/month for the calculation.  So your first Bitcoin will cost you €300.
After this their is of big inters to se how fast the decries is for main Bitcoin probably their is not realistic to make 10 Bitcoin/year for year one. But say as a example that it take two month the make the second one it will cost you €150 (for HW) + 2*150 for power = €450 for the next and so on 3:th Bc = €600 (4 month). If it show the progress by this hypothetically scale I have done her it will take 1023 month (about 83 year) to make 10 Bitcoin and the last one cost you in just energy in today price and currency value €76800 in just energy.

Their is funny to look at the site you refried to 1 Grate and 13 No Good votes. The Grate vote is probably the company it self that give the first vote.

One other thing about the power consumption. How dose it meet up to the climate goals? Shouldn't we lower our consumption instead for rise it to make Bitcion? Just a question to think about. These days company's tyre to lower the power consumptions by virtualisation of systems to fewer hardware but her it is the total opposite for the BitCoin miners. 

Posted by: devnullius
« on: 12. December 2013., 21:35:38 »

Quote from: Samker on 21. October 2013., 19:14:02
D., I just want to check do you get any reply from them till now?

Their support was and is horrible - they will never reply on something that is not to their liking.

That said, after another VERY PISSED ANGRY email about the 110V debacle, after a few days or so I actually got a reply with some basic advices. Like: did you check the 110V/230V switch? Does it still work? DUH. A PSU was advised too... So why they would make their own custom and DANGEROUS power adapter...? I don't know. My friend, whom knows condensators and shit like I know good antivirus and shit, said they were very cheap and obscure components. He did not like the device one bit.

Read other expert opinions here: https://forums.butterflylabs.com/bfl-forum-miscellaneous/5295-throw-away-your-bfl-single-power-supply-hazardous.html

Still angry,

Devvie

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